I play games to experience a crafted piece of artistry. DLSS 5 offers none of this, instead replacing the paintbrush held in a human hand with an AI slopping a big vat of oil over the canvas. What are we doing here?
I am not completely against this technology if it can be used to ‘remaster’ older games.
In the current climate of rising hardware prices, it just seems unnecessary and tone-deaf to introduce such tech that requires not one, but TWO top of the line GPUs to run.
Yes, Nvidia is hugely into AI and machine learning, but they might be known as slopvidia soon if the keep forcing this stuff on gamers and developers.
It can’t, remastering games is an entirely different process that requires artistic direction. Piping a game’s video output through an AI filter just takes the original game and smears a bunch of slop over it.
Personally, I don’t know much about this technology. That said, I’ve heard that the original purpose of DLSS was to improve gaming performance, give you more FPS, and so on.
In that sense, many—myself included—are wondering: How is this slop generator going to improve game performance? How is giving Grace from RE9 a totally different face with make up on going to improve my gaming experience?
Not a fan of reimagined stuff of any sort, it usually doesn’t hit well. But from a tech standpoint I can think of ways one could use the tech to improve game performance for new games. Usually making a game run faster or feel more realistic is all about fooling the player, not drawing what’s not seeable, showing hints of things that aren’t really there. Hell, that’s been true for movies and even stage, right?
So my thought on how this could work is to have the actual core models be lower polys, enough for details but not as high as the best we’ve seen done, and minimal texturing. Then the generator uses that as a base to form the image it puts over the top. Still don’t see how that can be done that fast, but apparently we’re there now.
The problem I see is consistency. Whatever the AI generates for a given source won’t be consistent throughout the game. Even in the original Digital Foundry video, you can see how Grace’s face looks like a totally different person depending on the distance from which it’s viewed.
The artistic style is supposed to solve that consistency issue, but this AI is ruining it.
(Also, in the same video, you can see they were using two 5090s to run the DLSS 5 games, so…)
I think the idea is that you could use low resolution / detail models that take up less RAM and are faster to process and DLSS hallucinates a high res image.
All of this upscaling when it was presented over a decade ago was to give older cards a longer lease in life and now it’s morphed into the mandatory way to get a stable framerate since developers can now just rely on DLSS and to a lesser extent FSR to get them to a acceptable framerate instead of optimization.
As for how will this improve the gaming experience? I honestly don’t see it at this point. Back when it was the original goal, sure, now with this “Chat GPT moment for graphics”, I see it only beneficial for corporate parasites and “shareholder value” as we wave good bye to artistic vision as everything goes to looking like AI only fans.
Who gives a fuck? I can play your game “as intended” or my way. Mods make games awesome!
If someone wants to play with AI slop mode fully enabled, that’s their choice and their prerogative and I’m assuming they bought the game so how about they just enjoy it however the hell they want to.
From brain rot to slop. The word of the year, everybody.
Business folks calling the shots over the artists cut back their hours and insist they let the slop generator make up the difference.
Every corner that can be cut to make running the business cheaper does get cut, and this is a pretty big possibility of corners to cut. It’s worthwhile to adamantly express the market for quality work.
To be honest it looks great and at first I thought about how impressive it is.
Then you think about how it modifies what was created and how it could lack consistency with a character looking a certain way in a part of the game and differently later.
I don’t know know what to think about these technologies like FSR and DLSS…
I don’t think I mind the fake frames as it could give you more performance on something like a Steam Deck, but the rest is tricky…
The problem is that these ‘features’ give you the fake appearance of performance but at the cost of actual performance. And they aren’t even good in the first place. Upscaling is like smearing vaseline all over your screen and saying “see how good it looks” when it’s just a blurry mess, especially with temporal elements. Frame generation gives artificial smoothness but doesn’t help input latency which is the part of frame rate that actually matters.
The kicker is that it costs real frames to generate fake ones. The game ends up looking and feeling worse.
I dislike upscaling, it always looks off to me and frequently causes edges of things to be weird kind of like aliasong but different. After upgrading from a gtx 3060, where I only used it for a few games that were hectic enough to not notice it as much, to a 9070xt I turned off upscaling globally and run everything in the native resolution. Games look so much better without dlss or fsr to me, fewer weird artifacts causing distractions.
I’ll take 20 less fps to not constsntly feel like something is off even if I can’t point out exactly what it is.
Well, somewhat good news: The best stuff of the times is generally still available, often legally for cheap, or even cheaper otherwise. As long as you aren’t purist about original copies on original hardware.
If this could be applied to games like Return to Castle Wolfenstein, System Shock 2, Soldier of Fortune, Medal of Honour, Tron 2.0, Call of Duty and all other titles from that era, I would not mind in the slightest.
But if technology existed that would enhance graphics of old games to look like stuff from 2016 or so that would be pretty neat. I would definitely use it!
And there’s still people who think this is a good thing and an evolution in graphics. You can guess what their political alignments are pretty quickly.
If you knew what it was you’d understand that gen AI is such thing. It steals the intellectual power of others to create dumbed down slop with the goal of making the general public less educated and reliant on it. It’s a trap made by technofascist billionaires to keep the masses from taking all of their heads, and this administration just happens to be all in on that too, using it for surveillance to disappear minorities and political opponents.
I disagree with multiple assertions you’ve made. It doesn’t steal anything. Neither does it have a goal. People using it may steal, and those with the most successful products may have goals - but that’s not the technology. This is like saying guns are fascist. Or cars are fascist. Or phones are fascist.
It’s a tool, and like any tool, the motive and ethics of it’s use is directly attributable to the user, not the tool.
Some, yes, not all. No one company created the technology. You can’t use a blanket accusation to condemn all forms of machine learning just because Altman (OpenAI), Zuckerberg (Meta) and Elon Musk are obvious fascists, and they’re championing the technology. Call them out specifically, it’s more effective than “all AI bad.”
Are you suggesting that their rights holders should commission some game devs to update their old titles to add support for DLSS5? Where’s the value proposition in that?
I think it will likely be able to be injected into any game that already supports DLSS. I wish that list was longer, but perhaps someone will create a wrapper so it works with any executable. Then it could work on older games and emulators. Preferably with tuning adjustments so you can find the sweet spot you’re looking for.
Easy to avoid nvidia products these days anyway. Overpriced, marginal performance over AMD, and tied to AI slop globally. Never been so easy to vote with your wallet.
That would only work i they still gave a shit about gamers or the consumer market in general. They became a full AI Datacenter company, thats where they make the money. I don’t think they will even produce consumer graphics cards in 5 years anymore.
Never cared for realism in games to begin with, so don’t particularly care to comment on how it looks, but I’ve been thinking that I genuinely find it creepy.
Not just Uncanny Valley material, but also having these faces stare at you, always fully lit, it just gives me the creeps, kind of like a panopticon situation.
I don’t fucking know, if that’s my own trauma playing into that, where for the longest time, people looking at me generally meant they’re about to bully me.
But either way, I’m about to head to bed and genuinely feel like there’s a 20% chance I’ll have a mild nightmare from that shit.
This whole AI craze has been a wild ride of all kinds of nightmare fuel, from depictions with missing/additional limbs to the weirdest warping of objects+limbs in those fucking generated videos. And the worst part is that some folks seem to just not see it or not want to see it, so they keep using the nightmare generators.
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I am not completely against this technology if it can be used to ‘remaster’ older games.
In the current climate of rising hardware prices, it just seems unnecessary and tone-deaf to introduce such tech that requires not one, but TWO top of the line GPUs to run.
Yes, Nvidia is hugely into AI and machine learning, but they might be known as slopvidia soon if the keep forcing this stuff on gamers and developers.
It can’t, remastering games is an entirely different process that requires artistic direction. Piping a game’s video output through an AI filter just takes the original game and smears a bunch of slop over it.
操你妈！Not only making their video cards beyond fucking reach than it was, it’s clear that old man is going for the moneybags.
Personally, I don’t know much about this technology. That said, I’ve heard that the original purpose of DLSS was to improve gaming performance, give you more FPS, and so on.
In that sense, many—myself included—are wondering: How is this slop generator going to improve game performance? How is giving Grace from RE9 a totally different face with make up on going to improve my gaming experience?
Not a fan of reimagined stuff of any sort, it usually doesn’t hit well. But from a tech standpoint I can think of ways one could use the tech to improve game performance for new games. Usually making a game run faster or feel more realistic is all about fooling the player, not drawing what’s not seeable, showing hints of things that aren’t really there. Hell, that’s been true for movies and even stage, right?
So my thought on how this could work is to have the actual core models be lower polys, enough for details but not as high as the best we’ve seen done, and minimal texturing. Then the generator uses that as a base to form the image it puts over the top. Still don’t see how that can be done that fast, but apparently we’re there now.
The problem I see is consistency. Whatever the AI generates for a given source won’t be consistent throughout the game. Even in the original Digital Foundry video, you can see how Grace’s face looks like a totally different person depending on the distance from which it’s viewed.
The artistic style is supposed to solve that consistency issue, but this AI is ruining it.
(Also, in the same video, you can see they were using two 5090s to run the DLSS 5 games, so…)
I think the idea is that you could use low resolution / detail models that take up less RAM and are faster to process and DLSS hallucinates a high res image.
All of this upscaling when it was presented over a decade ago was to give older cards a longer lease in life and now it’s morphed into the mandatory way to get a stable framerate since developers can now just rely on DLSS and to a lesser extent FSR to get them to a acceptable framerate instead of optimization.
As for how will this improve the gaming experience? I honestly don’t see it at this point. Back when it was the original goal, sure, now with this “Chat GPT moment for graphics”, I see it only beneficial for corporate parasites and “shareholder value” as we wave good bye to artistic vision as everything goes to looking like AI only fans.
Saves payroll on artists which means more profits. #winning
The artists are still necessary for the slop generator to have aomething ro slop all over.
It makes “I fixed this ugly FEMALE character” chuds happy and that’s what matters to them.
Who gives a fuck? I can play your game “as intended” or my way. Mods make games awesome!
If someone wants to play with AI slop mode fully enabled, that’s their choice and their prerogative and I’m assuming they bought the game so how about they just enjoy it however the hell they want to.
From brain rot to slop. The word of the year, everybody.
Business folks calling the shots over the artists cut back their hours and insist they let the slop generator make up the difference.
Every corner that can be cut to make running the business cheaper does get cut, and this is a pretty big possibility of corners to cut. It’s worthwhile to adamantly express the market for quality work.
That’s called a NIMBY.
To be honest it looks great and at first I thought about how impressive it is.
Then you think about how it modifies what was created and how it could lack consistency with a character looking a certain way in a part of the game and differently later.
I don’t know know what to think about these technologies like FSR and DLSS…
I don’t think I mind the fake frames as it could give you more performance on something like a Steam Deck, but the rest is tricky…
The problem is that these ‘features’ give you the fake appearance of performance but at the cost of actual performance. And they aren’t even good in the first place. Upscaling is like smearing vaseline all over your screen and saying “see how good it looks” when it’s just a blurry mess, especially with temporal elements. Frame generation gives artificial smoothness but doesn’t help input latency which is the part of frame rate that actually matters.
The kicker is that it costs real frames to generate fake ones. The game ends up looking and feeling worse.
The magic here is you always have the option in most game settings, to turn it off.
I dislike upscaling, it always looks off to me and frequently causes edges of things to be weird kind of like aliasong but different. After upgrading from a gtx 3060, where I only used it for a few games that were hectic enough to not notice it as much, to a 9070xt I turned off upscaling globally and run everything in the native resolution. Games look so much better without dlss or fsr to me, fewer weird artifacts causing distractions.
I’ll take 20 less fps to not constsntly feel like something is off even if I can’t point out exactly what it is.
Finally, the slopware generation
Being young today must be fun. Just missed out on all the good stuff in the 80, 90s and 2000s to experience this mess we have now.
I was hanging out with my neighbour a few months back. When I listed off how fucked kids today are…
Then I remembered he has two young boys and they’re growing up with this dystopia as their present and future.
I apologised once I realized his family is directly affected.
He said “Oh I already know they’re fucked.”
Well, somewhat good news: The best stuff of the times is generally still available, often legally for cheap, or even cheaper otherwise. As long as you aren’t purist about original copies on original hardware.
You forgot the 2010s, where all the online services were amazing. Well, until Harambe marked the downfall.
If this could be applied to games like Return to Castle Wolfenstein, System Shock 2, Soldier of Fortune, Medal of Honour, Tron 2.0, Call of Duty and all other titles from that era, I would not mind in the slightest.
A man can dream…
Well the last time that was done we ended up with the GTA trilogy mess with AI upscaling/remastering.
I did not mean that crap of course!
But if technology existed that would enhance graphics of old games to look like stuff from 2016 or so that would be pretty neat. I would definitely use it!
But that won’t happen I guess…
And there’s still people who think this is a good thing and an evolution in graphics. You can guess what their political alignments are pretty quickly.
The guess would be entirely wrong, of course, but I can sense that has never stopped you before.
If you don’t think gen AI is a fascist technology and praise it then i’m fairly certain that putting you in the fascist box is correct.
Lol. I am as far from fascist as one can get. Based on your answer, I don’t believe you even know what fascism is.
If you knew what it was you’d understand that gen AI is such thing. It steals the intellectual power of others to create dumbed down slop with the goal of making the general public less educated and reliant on it. It’s a trap made by technofascist billionaires to keep the masses from taking all of their heads, and this administration just happens to be all in on that too, using it for surveillance to disappear minorities and political opponents.
I disagree with multiple assertions you’ve made. It doesn’t steal anything. Neither does it have a goal. People using it may steal, and those with the most successful products may have goals - but that’s not the technology. This is like saying guns are fascist. Or cars are fascist. Or phones are fascist.
It’s a tool, and like any tool, the motive and ethics of it’s use is directly attributable to the user, not the tool.
The motive and ethics are from the tech companies that created them. Those are the ones with technofascist aspirations.
Some, yes, not all. No one company created the technology. You can’t use a blanket accusation to condemn all forms of machine learning just because Altman (OpenAI), Zuckerberg (Meta) and Elon Musk are obvious fascists, and they’re championing the technology. Call them out specifically, it’s more effective than “all AI bad.”
Weird… I like this and see this as a bonus to uplifting old games.
So what’s my political alignment?
How, precisely, would this “uplift old games”?
Are you suggesting that their rights holders should commission some game devs to update their old titles to add support for DLSS5? Where’s the value proposition in that?
I think it will likely be able to be injected into any game that already supports DLSS. I wish that list was longer, but perhaps someone will create a wrapper so it works with any executable. Then it could work on older games and emulators. Preferably with tuning adjustments so you can find the sweet spot you’re looking for.
No one cares about old games looking realistic and if you do you should probably look for modern games instead.
Easy to avoid nvidia products these days anyway. Overpriced, marginal performance over AMD, and tied to AI slop globally. Never been so easy to vote with your wallet.
That would only work i they still gave a shit about gamers or the consumer market in general. They became a full AI Datacenter company, thats where they make the money. I don’t think they will even produce consumer graphics cards in 5 years anymore.
It’s crazy to watch these developers march everyone’s jobs, including their own off a cliff.
I don’t think developers and artists have a choice when they’re being told by the publishers to do it.
I get it, but there’s always a choice
Nvidia DLSS (Deep Learning Super Sloppificator)
Double Latency Slop Slinger
Debt Limited Stereotype Sketcher
Detail Leaking Shabby Seer
Everything tech bros touch, dies
Nvidia filters have been a thing for years. This isn’t any different.
Never cared for realism in games to begin with, so don’t particularly care to comment on how it looks, but I’ve been thinking that I genuinely find it creepy.
Not just Uncanny Valley material, but also having these faces stare at you, always fully lit, it just gives me the creeps, kind of like a panopticon situation.
I don’t fucking know, if that’s my own trauma playing into that, where for the longest time, people looking at me generally meant they’re about to bully me.
But either way, I’m about to head to bed and genuinely feel like there’s a 20% chance I’ll have a mild nightmare from that shit.
This whole AI craze has been a wild ride of all kinds of nightmare fuel, from depictions with missing/additional limbs to the weirdest warping of objects+limbs in those fucking generated videos. And the worst part is that some folks seem to just not see it or not want to see it, so they keep using the nightmare generators.
I guess by this description that perhaps it would be good for something like resident evil that strives to give you that uncanny creepiness no?
Don’t think the playable characters are supposed to be creepy, but yeah, a yassified zombie would probably fit right in. 😅