insomniac_lemon
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And don’t confuse high budget indie studios with AAA game developers
On the other hand, there are a lot of publishers out there who really shouldn’t have things called indie when they’re involved.
The ones who have struck gold (perhaps multiple times) and are already worth multiple millions, publicly traded or even owned largely by investment firms. Some like this still footing everything on the players (crowdfunding and then early access) and on top of all of that going onto places like Imgur and Reddit and doing unpaid marketing there (doesn’t seem great for the actual devs, and then there are things like multiple accounts/sockpuppets/deleting+reposting etc).
And even without the unpaid marketing stuff, a publisher has a lot of ways to screw over developers and/or players usually with the goal of money in some form.
The publisher of this is somewhat scummy* so I wouldn’t doubt whatever this is being completely planned/manufactured to get in the headlines. Or at least the idea being originally pushed by the publisher to “boost engagement” on Imgur/Reddit.
*= Publisher having a decent amount of games, using multiple accounts for unpaid self-promotion on Imgur (to the point I assume they either made devs do this or pretended to be them) on top of crowdfunding+early-access. Also one of the published games was de-listed on Steam temporarily due to a license dispute with the creator (who now has the rights).
Does it even have touch capability? Though I could see the logic if there is some way to develop in a way that allows easily exporting to both the Playdate and Android.
Also I’d say a lot of those features are easier had with a Steam controller (or perhaps other gamepad). Granted they are not sold anymore, but I got one in the fire sale and likely a lot of people did as well due to being dirt cheap (PC Gamer says 48 million, 10% of sessions).
I was originally going to reply to @essell on agreement on cost, but the only real substance was
- It’s not really for me for a lot of reasons (I don’t need portability, I don’t like buying things generally+use what I have)
- I haven’t worked my way up to real creation yet (due to a lot of problems) but my desired aesthetic is more like these things I’ve made animated 2D eye (note:imgur links only work if opened in a private window for me) or 3D plant with only vertex colors.
I plugged it into Google Lens (top-left corner, with some of the blurred bit in it): https://store.steampowered.com/app/18700/And_Yet_It_Moves/
See the 7th screenshot.
EDIT: Sorry, didn’t see someone answered before me, their comment didn’t federate to my instance even now
I’ve had similar thoughts here, but I’d add also that the remasters also bloat the data of a game massively while also completely cutting out some really smart rendering tech. Like vertex colors in general, but specifically Spyro’s vertex color skyboxes.
Similarly was watching reviews on the Medievil remaster and hearing a few people say that they left some glaring design issues in.
Games back then were pricier - once you account for inflation.
That’s commonly said but ignores other economic factors such as income, unspent money, and cost-of-living.
Though lots of things are better now: the entire back-catalogue of games, more access to review/forums, free games (and also ability to create your own games without doing so from nothing) etc. Aside from when video store rental was applicable, early gaming was more take-what-you-can-get (niche hardware/platforms might still have that feel somewhat).
I only skimmed the article (I am no cloud scientist), but I feel like vertex color skyboxes should probably be mentioned. Used in the Homeworld games and the early Spyro games.
Spyro example, 2 (you may need to open this in a private window for it to load properly). Gallery. (also these will likely look more natural in-game, then again they may be obscured by the map itself)
The relevant bit here is that the artist can control how soft the edge of a cloud is using the density of the mesh. Defined clouds, wisps, overcast/fog looks etc. Also, aesthetic.
Yeah that’s the bit you install, and the .rap is the license. You could use the emu or an actual PS3 assuming you have custom firmware (or hen).
I am more interested in how much content it actually has without a server, how it’d compare to other versions. Looking into it, seems like some LBP1 levels are archived as save data but I also wonder if custom servers could be a thing (uploading too?). EDIT: The answer is yes, I should’ve just looked it up. Beacon.
Doom ports are a meme at this point, which is a motivation for a straightforward task (for someone who knows what they’re doing, at least). A flexible engine, less likely.
I assume these types of scenarios/features fare better:
- newer hardware
- open (SDK and sideloading OOTB)
- bespoke engine (limited capability)
- WASM or similar universal shim layer (I assume)
Likely meaning money (and healthy homebrew scenes in some cases might be sunk cost, like the Playdate which I’m sure is great if cost isn’t an issue). Though honestly the main reason I care at all is just to use hardware that I already have*. I don’t really need a handheld console even though I expect that will likely have a better homebrew scene. (If unclear, I’m just saying the PS3 bit isn’t important for the idea, and if it’s dead then the novelty/excuse is gone too)
I guess some older consoles have options now but those also usually need some sort of extra buy (mostly the step itself being an issue) plus I don’t have most of my old consoles.
*=especially if semi-unique features. Like sixaxis for the PS3 (analog triggers if comparing to KB+M)… though I do wonder if someone could make accelerometer controls work for the steam controller rather than just gyro. Then again, on top of my other PS3 issues I don’t even know if my controllers are still alive.
Yeah, sorry. I could probably do something, it’s just tedious especially now. Maybe eventually, though I remember stuff (like a cheap laser puzzle game from the PSN, also some old animations sold on the PSN though I did remember Stickman Exodus) that I probably won’t ever find again.
On a very similar note I really like the idea of creating some sort of content, not sure if things will ever align there either. I’d like to create minimalist stuff (that could probably run on the PS1 even), so it’s a shame that it’ll never be as simple as clicking export from Godot (it could happen 3rd-party maybe, but might be too niche) and copying a file over.
I don’t think I played the story co-op, but I played versus maybe 3 times. Splitscreen isn’t good for that because screen-peeking.
Resistance 2 had some interesting co-op/online stuff (XP system with unlocks, different stuff than story mode) that I mostly played solo IIRC (janky, still need 2 controllers). No broadband available until mid-2016, but I was able to play online via a distant neighor’s wifi (they knew) at midnight for a few games and was probably the worst player thanks to high ping (rubberbanding).
I’ve got 2 already:
my orginal 60GB version (YLoD, heatgun fixed a few+ times until it shut-off due to overheating for the first time so I gave up)
one with a broken disc-drive I traded for, put my old drive (with its the console keeping its original disc-drive daughterboard) in and eventually it stopped reading discs (not sure if it burned out or firmware DRM timeout thing, cleaner disc didn’t work)
I could probably fix either but I don’t want to spend money on it, plus given the situation I’d probably need to fix both.
Can’t rip my own disc (I have a blu-ray drive but not the right kind for PS3 ripping). Emu is a hassle esp. w/big files (and I have a 1050Ti). Bookmarks are dead (or need acct?) and I can’t seem to find a demo image to see how well it’d run.
So I just dusted off my PS3 (with an air compressor).
Discs apparently work again, not sure if from the air or some other temporary thing (I’ve seen some say tilt and “let it warm up” like aging motors or something). Not seeing any issues now.
Controller’s lights wouldn’t even come on, but turns out it needed the original cable and connected to the PS3. Had to fix the L1 button but the triggers fell out (design sucks) making the triggers too sensitive and then I fixed those too. Seems to hold at least some charge and it obviously wasn’t puffed.
Popped my R:FOM disc in, works great. Got the auger (to the level that starts in a tunnel, turrets+trenches).
Haven’t gotten to FW stuff yet, seems straightforward and I have the compat. info I need.
Looking through the menus jogged my memory. The game I mentioned was a PSP mini (playable on PS3) and is called Deflector (gameplay at ~1min+). Not really that interesting TBH, but seeing quite a few minis based on Flash games so it makes me wonder if you could convert Flash games somehow and how well it’d work for making new homebrew games especially if it can use other things besides Flash (though it does use PSP emulation so performance might not be the best). I also see a package for LUA, but it’s old so not sure if it’d still work.
(Updated comment, original below)
I was just wanting to re-play one of my old games (Resistance: FoM), but that only brought up PS3 gloom because I can’t easily run them.
I mean free games are nice, pretty much all I play now aside from things I bought on sale many years ago.
These problems are not new and he is/was/will-be lead writer+lead designer for decades worth of Bethesda’s games. Sure you can blame Todd, but beyond that it seems like saying it wasn’t Emil’s influence is a bit of a “so you agree” situation (as in still his fault) relating to his public admissions (lack of design document and saying that players don’t care about story).
Aaaand it’s gone (12 hours ago).
I don’t really care (especially when it’s older than 2 decades), but when a company (this company especially) issues hundreds of takedowns in 1 batch (and they do this multiple times) I don’t think they’re evaluating each one at all let alone for any sort of merit/exemption. They have no real reason to do so, that’s why I’m saying don’t put the target on your back (especially scaling with how much work was put into it).
If anything I’d say I’m at the point where fan content kind of seems too good for companies that treat their users like dirt (and not just those who make fan content). Like that is inevitably going to be someone’s introduction into a series, can this giant company not do better than free-time fan efforts? Well, I guess what I’d really like to see is a game that’s simultaneously a love-letter to a game/genre yet a hate-letter (diss letter?) to the current owner.
It also doesn’t matter how by-the-law they do that if they’re still using trademarked terms so will easily show up as a search result when someone at a corporation has an intern run a script to do another batch of DMCA takedowns.
I mean unless they have the willingness+time+money to fight a highly-paid team of lawyers in court. (which could happen either way, but it’s much more likely when it’s so easy to find even if it gets 3 downloads)
Easier: Stop using trademarked terms (particularly in this case where it’s the original game name) and screenshots of the logo.
It’s a multiplier to being caught, and can still result in a takedown even with original assets (for example, DMCA’s sky which originally used the M name in the title). The further you distance yourself from trademarks/IP the better.
Seems to me more like they repeated all their old mistakes and made new ones. The engine might’ve slowed development (and gave some influences/limits etc) but design direction seems to be the issue. Being on-par with their older games would be a step up, it’s like they missed the point of why people liked their worlds.
Including a trademarked term right in the title is the thing that gets most fan projects. It’s a multiplier for takedowns, it can’t get any easier for companies than running a simple script that just searches Itch/Gamejolt/Github for terms and then doing a mass takedown of the results. And that will even catch things with 3 downloads.
Sure user-added* or redone assets could help, but just distancing the name would help a lot more. Having 100% new assets won’t stop a takedown if you use trademarked terms (see DMCA’s Sky), and the DMCA system doesn’t really discourage overstepping unless somebody has the willingness/money/time to take it to court.
*=image detection could be a thing as well though, so be careful with screenshots especially with a logo
I mean often times they just have a script that looks for the trademarked terms (or in some cases, visual matches, or music for video), so it does matter using such things. At least when something it released, if it’s largely original work using trademarked names/logos is an easy way to shoot yourself in the foot (and can result in very early detection).
I also doubt takedowns are usually a higher-up hearing about said projects and “ordering the strike” (probably just that it popped up on an automated/intern-ran script), that’s why I think even the easiest changes would be good to do. Because they probably aren’t ever going to see Jimmy Eagle even if it were uploaded and popular.
The video part isn’t really important to my point, just the general idea that involving trademarked stuff is basically a multiplier for risk. Some simple changes and fans will still see what it is and like it, scripts won’t. And people fail to see this too often, so I don’t think people should encourage it because “it’s probably fine”.
That’s why I said without consequence. By that I specifically meant that a takedown could be used no matter the context. Non-infringing videos are often taken down and often people don’t even fight it because doing so can result in strikes.
Most people probably aren’t going to fight anything in court let alone compete with an expensive team of lawyers, so they aren’t ever going to get even the slightest pushback if they overstep things. That’s why I say it’s better to distance yourself from trademarks as much as possible.
I’m not even talking about monetization, just that they’re making and announcing something that is obviously DMCA-bait. Even the video could be taken down without consequence (even if it didn’t have monetization enabled, also the corp could force enable and get the money). This is a common thing that happens and it seems completely pointless and easy to avoid (again, even just plausible deniability/under-the-radar level).
If somebody was going to make a video cooking something “just for fun”/learning, I’d also say they should still try to be mindful of food safety rather than saying “if I get food poisoning, I can deal with that. Don’t do-as-I-do”.
Or in other words, just have some discretion.
How I remade Game™ in-
YOU FOOL!
How difficult is it to call it something like Toby Bird’s Overground? Feels particularly silly on somewhere like Youtube, where if the video blows up it’s likely any future hopes for your project will too (and this could happen at any arbitrary point in the future, though probably with a change of staff or just before a new competing title is about to be released).
That and I feel that at least a little plausible deniability (while matching the feel) would add to the “Hey, has anyone ever told you that you look like Tony Hawk?” joke.
(see also the video PSA: A Message to Unofficial Fan Game Creators)
It’s probably stuff being less “indie” than it appears on the surface. Both of those games you listed appear to have successful publishers, one behind Maplestory and multi-million (in USD) net income (also largest shareholder is investment firm, Maplestory NFTs). The other has more games (and significantly more DLC) on Steam.
That doesn’t really answer your question, well aside from saying money. Though there may be a deeper connection as well (shareholders having hands in everything etc)
I mean yeah we’re mostly on the same page… but it should be clear that I’m not suggesting crazy detail everywhere, mostly just being a bit more intentional with model design when possible to integrate vertex color (or another old technique, use multiple objects when it means a simpler mesh). And I mentioned Spyro’s texture/LoD system which is good, was going to mention sprite usage and also Crash having only 2 textures (shoes, back) but was too wordy (also Crash taking advantage of a linear camera for custom culling and view-specific models).
I’d say it’s really good to give variation (and unique-ness) on detail and effects that way every tiny thing you decide to add isn’t a fixed workload. Or in some cases the opposite approach, a more re-used/modular design for certain things like characters.
The problem with textures (aside from data w/high-res/high-color, resolution dependency, and workload) is that when you play an older game at modern resolutions (higher internal res or even just a Flash game) the elements that were designed for older resolutions/displays are really apparent next to the meshes that scale perfectly. Particularly if it’s a GUI or pre-rendered cutscene (sometimes other random stuff). Textures on meshes can still be a really solid aesthetic for the environment/characters.
Also generated textures (see .kkrieger for an extreme example) might be a potential fix for the drawbacks, or something like textures that are designed to be used with an upscale filter (or in a similar way, maybe converting to SDF textures).
I don’t think that’s it. For 3D the workflow is already there and vertex colors are powerful (though usually used for shaders or other effects like terrain-based sounds). Even going for Spyro’s approach (esp. grayscale textures that disappear with LoD so it’s just color) wouldn’t be too bad as I imagine its music/voice is actually what takes up the most space (newer audio compression or MIDI-like music would reduce that), though a more minimal/stylized look could make it a lot easier. Certainly some things are more suited for it than others.
I could say a lot of technical reasons for or against this workflow, but I think the biggest is just that it’s something that people don’t think about or would rather have photorealism or blocky pixels instead (or at least that’s a large chunk of the market). Vertex lighting is cool but doesn’t have much use over modern lighting (if it did, it’d be very niche) and developers often don’t really care about optimization much, instead telling players ‘upgrade your PC’.
(admittedly my experience with 2D vector seems less supported as far as editors and AA, though I’m not sure if Godot’s clip children feature has an equivalent in 3D or if you’d just need to use meshes/rigging more cleverly… which is fair, I’m not aware of non-skeleton rigging tools in Godot’s 2D either)
Well I have a lot of problems with how people design games so I don’t really buy stuff anymore, plus I haven’t really seen a lot of stuff that focuses on vector (esp textureless). In other words it’s pretty niche even for indie, and discoverability generally isn’t great even on the best day.
I’d probably have more luck doing it myself, I’ve done a few 2D things (meme made with Godot 3.X, 4.0 eye animation, not-yet-in-4.X test of someone elses’ PR) but I’m not a dev and I don’t have much energy or many ideas.
Some people might be against them for the reason that they can de-list their old games from digital storefronts. For newer games especially it’d make that hard to compare what was changed.
I guess it’s not as relevant with newer titles, but I feel like many of the classics looked fine (especially with higher internal res which is a good option for emu) and had some really cool tech that gave it a nice aesthetic without it being bloated. So it kind of feels like it’s missing the point (limitation and ingenuity or something like that).
Like with Spyro, a big draw for me is the usage of vertex color including the skyboxes (one example, album). So it went from ~300MiB to 30-60GiB+. I mean sure some old games were designed with raster graphics that look crusty now, but for something like Spyro I’d rather play even a fan _de_make (leaning further into vertex colors) with more fleshed out gameplay (/more content) though too many fan game creators haven’t learned to distance even their game titles from trademarks.
I kinda hate the mention of “that’s not universal!”. That usually isn’t even claimed (and factors are usually discussed in long-form videos), and needing to constantly change wording to prevent that gets old for both sides of a conversation (at least that’s my experience, most of the time).
For me a lot of the things that make games not fun are things that I can describe. Hunger/inventory management/decent items being rare/underwhelming rewards/backtracking/lack-of-information-or-feedback are the most common that make games feel tedious to me. Often a tiny removal or tweak could go a long way to fix that, but that isn’t really even viable in most cases (particularly for me).
I just have stopped buying games because money/purchase regret, though if I were: GPU and storage space(+6-8Mbps internet shared with other people) are considerations that block off many newer games for me (and indie games are not immune to this, particularly with resistance to buying).
That, and anything that’s heavy on story or atmosphere I can probably get 80% enjoyment (if not more, because I won’t be experiencing the issues) by watching a video of someone else play (particularly someone with a good voice adding their own narrative/spin). A lot of games that I’ve played were pretty obvious and thus don’t seem to have much below the surface.
On a more general note, it often seems like games either expect too much of me or just don’t respect my time (and I say that as someone with a lot of free time). And on a specific note, games that are co-op-first often just suck to play single-player.
As for Minecraft, due to the updates I was slowly losing interest until I stopped playing in the 1.8/1.9 era (I had my own resource pack with 1.8 models that kept me somewhat interested, 1.9 broke them). Then you needed to create a Microsoft account.
I’ve tried different Minetest games and there isn’t really a base that I enjoy enough to try modding onto, especially as many go for the same types of things that MC does.
The last thing I bought was a charity bundle more than a year ago (2022 march), there were a few games that I enjoyed but not for long and most of it seems not that great. Since then I’ve just been playing free games, which again some is pretty OK and a lot of it isn’t (it’s kind of annoying to sift through it on itch).
Well yes, but also lack of money is a big issue for buying games plus the hardware to run said games.
That and being in that situation it’s easy to get burned out on buying stuff due to not enjoying previous purchases, or them not having much replay value (sometimes it is possible but tedious in implementation). Also unforgiving/tedious game mechanics in general.
Though personally I think I get about as much enjoyment (or ~80%) watching a let’s-play of some games (especially if linear/atmospheric/multiplayer etc, and even more if it’s the story-ified or custom goals like ambiguousamphibian’s videos) as I would actually playing.
Is it though? I highly doubt someone with the “music bad” take would give any examples of things done right let alone newer names (even in the disliked genre) and explain potential production-level problems (beyond surface-level reactions to content/people). They even say that indie games are not as prone to said issues, or that adulthood might play a part. And it’s probably less of a universal issue and more of a “why are there so many multi-million-dollar-games that are over-hyped?” much like how box-office movies are often huge-budget “safe” IPs that are more spectacle than substance.
So I’d say it’s more nuanced than the title/thumbnail may lead you to believe.
Are you challenging me?
For the most part, it’s not hard to find them if they’re doing the things I said and you pay attention while they do it. Look at how many titles a publisher has on Steam, see if they have a wikipedia page and if so if there’s monetary info involved. Recognizing a dev/publisher might also be part of it.
Also with self-publishing never being easier, some of my skepticism starts there. Another is games seeming somewhat shovelware-esque or like they’re trying to ride the wave of some other successful game/trend and that’s why targeting consoles early-on is likely important to them for the money.
I originally wasn’t, but off the top of my head some of the stronger examples:
Just because something is cute pixels that does not mean it’s indie. A good introduction to this is the existing discussion of Dave the Diver and its ties to Nexon. EDIT: Also, lootbox controversy with Nexon and Maplestory
One involving unpaid marketing and crowdfunding/early-access: tinyBuild. ~$473m IPO. Publisher of Hello Neighbor, which also has some controversy around it on quality (also mobile games with micro-transactions, because kid audience). While searching on this, I also saw someone angry about them doing testing on Steam and then a post-launch Epic exclusivity. EDIT: Also one of their games not having all content available on GOG.
The game Roots of Pacha had a license dispute (I do not know the cause, but the dev did end up getting the Steam rights) their original publisher had at least 6 different accounts on Imgur (and they also did the crowdfunding/EA thing too, and no it was not like 1 game per account either and some of those accounts are mysteriously gone now). Same publisher was in the news about controversy over boob physics, and I don’t doubt it was either suggested by the CEO for the headlines or just marketing clicks if controversy hadn’t have happened.
Even if people don’t care about stuff like this enough to stop buying the games, I hope they at least try to not enable or reward blatant self-promotion (particularly the more dipping and questionable practices involved) on the fediverse