My gaming PC from 2019 might be technically barely faster than this (2070S in it) but I’m still inclined to buy one.
What’s convinced me is my steam deck. I couldn’t be happier with a piece of hardware as this. And if this is just a more powerful non-handheld variant that does all the same shit, I’d be open to it for sure.
Didn’t he buy a massive yacht on the same day steam announced these products? It can’t be easy to sneak a superyacht under the publicity radar, but he seems to have pretty much managed it.
If olot really Is going to be priced like that then why?
Like you Can Build a PC and Its even fun.
You cant make a Powerfull PC that small easly but like…idk
There were some pieces mentioned on waveform about its set up being out of box ready to be turned on by tv remote and those few console like bits that people like me wouldnt know how to do if we built.
Eh, I don’t particularly enjoy building PCs, but I do it because it’s cheaper, esp. for upgrades. I’m really not the target market for this.
That said, this is the right product for a lot of people. Many don’t want to mess with their gaming system, they want it to just work. That’s why consoles are popular, and the Steam Machine being a bit more expensive than a console and get access to Steam’s catalog is very attractive to a lot of people, especially if it otherwise works like a console.
Yeah It works like the pc-console with steamOS ita Just i found that for me and some other people its a Little redundant, but not that people shouldnt buy it
I’m guessing the same reason people don’t always reroof their own house, or replace their own home electrical, or build their own bike. Sometimes it’s worth spending money to avoid doing a thing you either don’t want to or don’t know how to do. As I’ve gotten older and more financially secure that’s definitely been the case with me at least
It’s weird being on this site sometimes. Not everyone speaks computer, but it turns out that doesn’t make them dumb, they’re just good at different things. Personally I have no issues doing electrical work but know I would get incredibly frustrated trying to work a Linux machine. I have no interest in learning all that noise because it straight up is not interesting to me and is not worth my time. I had my fill of that nonsense in school. I’d def be a potential customer of something like this that ‘works out of the box’ - honestly that’s the real path to getting people off windows.
If you want a smaller form factor it actually costs you more than a normal tower. This is not a bad way to get a small form factor computer (if it’s priced like a normal sized PC)
Especially with the fucked up RAM prices recently.
IIRC from an earlier article, they’re still looking at factors and don’t yet know for sure (I suspect that it might be that Trump tariffs and whether they will stand is an input).
That’s the thing I find amusing in this thread. Consoles are a known quantity and it needs to either compete or undercut them. I have a Steam Deck that I paid £320 for (brought up to £400 by the SSD I added). I would most definitely not pay more than £450 for a Steam Box. It may well cost more than that but it is a luxury and I would seriously struggle to justify more than that.
Assembling your own Steam Machine with similar parts will cost around 800
Even if you assembled it yourself you would be missing features, such as cec, wake by controller, sleep mid game, etc. LTT will try to build one, it will be interesting to see what they come up with, but I’m 90% it won’t have feature parity.
There’s lots of engineering gone into this machine, they’re way more compact, less power hungry and more quiet than anything you can build yourself.
Buying the same build as a prebuilt brings a premium and costs around 1000
Valve purchases stuff in scale so they can diminish their margin and could potentially sell it cheaper than prebuilts, and possibly cheaper than building it yourself.
Consoles are sold at a loss, and they recover it with games because the platform is closed.
The Steam Machine is not closed, they can’t be sure they’re getting game purchases, because people might be buying this to be their work computer. So they have to price it as a PC, with margin on hardware, not promise of future returns.
Price might fluctuate between now and announcement, RAM prices are going crazy nowadays.
With all of that being said, it seems to me it’s very likely it will be around 800 but less than 1000. For people saying you can build one for that price yourself, sure, go ahead, you’ll have a huge, power hungry loud box, without the same features and you would have saved only a small fraction of the value by having to assemble everything yourself.
With all of that being said, it seems to me it’s very likely it will be around 800 but less than 1000
maybe more with the way ram prices are skyrocketing… because even though it comes out next year, they are probably being manufactured and stockpiled right now.
Yup, like I said, it depends on how prices will fluctuate, my guess is what the price would be if it was being sold now, if RAM increases they would have to compensate for it.
I don’t think so, I think a normal user would pause when the system asks him to type “Yes, do as I say” as that is clearly a sign that you’re about to shoot yourself in the foot.
Most people rarely read warnings or signs. They’re used to needing to just click accept and move on. More than that, their entire experience thus far will have trained them to just type in the magic command line words and get it over with. This is what linux enthusiasts beat into them while pretending everything is a cake walk. “Don’t trust anything” while simultaneously telling them to use this and that script, and copy this and that text into the terminal. Its not at all a wonder to imagine that behaviour.
It wasn’t a standard accept/continue/yes prompt, it wasn’t something that he could just press enter or something easy and continue without noticing, he had to have read the message to know what to do, it was something akin to:
WARNING The following essential packages will be removed. This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you’re doing!
…
You’re about to do something harmful, if you’re sure of what you’re doing type the phrase “Yes, do as I say!”
The message couldn’t have been more clear about it. Plus most users wouldn’t need to use the terminal, he just happened to use the distro during the brief window that that bug existed.
As a Linux enthusiast I can definitely tell you I never encourage people to just type words in the magic box and get it over with, and always tell them to understand what they’re typing.
Doesn’t matter. This is an opinion that is 100% formed in an echo chamber where you are far removed from what a regular user would think going through this process. All of these prompts you think look different, to a normal person might as well be literally exactly the same. “I don’t know what I am doing, but the program says to do the next thing, with some warning that probably doesnt matter because I’m not doing something hard or critically important”.
Of note:
WARNING The following essential packages will be removed. This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you’re doing!
That is a message that would not impede a regular user at all, or would completely stop them from using the OS.
They’re trying to install steam. Why would they have any reason to believe that whatever programs are mentioned matter, or think that this message matters when they’re doing something that is in theory extremely simple?
Plus most users wouldn’t need to use the terminal, he just happened to use the distro during the brief window that that bug existed.
How does this negate the fact that the actions taken were reasonable and absolutely not the users fault? In fact, the fact that this was fixed and treated so urgently betrays what a flaw it was.
As a Linux enthusiast I can definitely tell you I never encourage people to just type words in the magic box and get it over with, and always tell them to understand what they’re typing.
Lets for the sake of not stating what I actually assume to be true take your word at face value.
What you recommend is simply incompatible with the majority of people. They don’t have the time or effort to devote into actually learning as much as you’d need to learn for this to actually be useful advice.
A great amount of information must be completely skipped over and ignored to be proficient in a reasonable amount of time.
I’ve used Linux at multiple jobs, and used it as my main desktop OS for more than a year. I know this to be true. For the average person to follow your advice, they’d need to have a firm grasp of BASH. Expecting people to learn even one scripting language, especially an old esoteric one with many gotchas and vestiges of its time is an absurd ask, so of course no one would listen to your advice as it is utterly unreasonable on its face, and completely incompatible with the level of user adoption people hope for.
So then, there is the other advice, from people who are also elitists, but in a different way. They believe these people must be stupid to not figure out the problems on their own, and casually tell them to just RTFM or use X, Y or Z script with reckless abandon.
Neither of these lead to anything remotely resembling the ease of use of operating systems these users will have come from, no matter how much Linux enthusiasts insist their weird edge cases where they feel those OSes are inferior mean that somehow, magically their opinions apply to the users they are appealing to.
I have a lot more to say honestly, as I have certainly thought about this a lot, but by this point and given the excerpt I am replying to, I’ve learned to never expect good faith discussion, so I’m just limiting my losses by stopping here as I expect toxic positivity as a response.
I agree with lots of what you’re saying, this was a serious bug, it wasn’t the user’s fault, and users can’t be expected to learn bash.
My point is that the message tried to be as scary as possible, because if that message shows then something is about to uninstall critical components from the system, the bug here was that trying to install steam triggered that. I agree that it wasn’t Linus fault, but I think that most users would stop at that message, he didn’t because he thinks he knows what he’s doing, but he doesn’t, he’s in that middle ground where he knows enough to be confidently wrong.
Let me ask you, how would you have given that message in a way that would make people stop?, remember that the message is valid, the bug was installing steam doing that.
Yeah, but to be fair that was a shitty thing the system did, anyone with experience would know not to do it, but honestly it should have never happened. On the other hand, Linus is a bit daft and lots of stuff blows over his head monumentally, in the same video where he said he would be building a Steam Machine he also couldn’t seem to grasp that this is just a computer and people would see it as a prevuilt. In short I don’t think he will acknowledge lots of the killer features in the Steam Machine just so he can claim his thing does the same. But at least it will be an interesting watch.
It was known beforehand and was fixed already by the time he released his video, he just happened to luck out and encounter it during the short spam it existed.
I disagree that he approached it as a complete idiot, he approached it as someone who knows what they’re doing, when he definitely doesn’t, and that was the issue. Anyone without technical know-how would have panicked at the system asking him to type “I know what I’m doing”, and anyone with enough technical know-how would have paused at that and read the message carefully and moped the fuck out. He had enough knowledge to think he knew what he was doing, but not enough to actually do, and the boldness to think he knew better.
That being said, I agree that there’s plenty of other stuff to bash him for, and that was not a great example, lots of people would have found themselves in that same situation, and I don’t think it’s unfair to say the fuck up there was not entirely on his part.
Consoles are sold at a loss, and they recover it with games because the platform is closed.
Sometimes, but evidently not currently. Sources seem to indicate that only Microsoft seems to say they are selling at a loss, though it seems odd since their bill of materials looks like it should be pretty comparable to PS5…
I’ll agree with the guess of around $800, but like you say, the supply pressure on RAM and storage as well as the tariff situation all over the place, hard to say.
Jay already tried. It was bigger, didn’t have the custom OS, and cost $1700. He could have done better except he was part limited to what rhe Microcenter he was at had on hand. Doing a bunch or research and getting different parts would probably bring down the price.
Also people who like to DIY seem to forget that a lot of people want a turn-key solution, I even dare to say that most people prefer a ready made solution. Even a lot of people who work in tech when they get home want a just work solution.
Yup, I love DIY, had tons of fun building my wife’s mini-itx gaming rig, my NAS and even my desktop (although it was the boring one of the three since it’s just standard). I love poking on my system, trying out stuff, etc. But I bought a Deck and my only mod was getting EmuDeck in it, it just works for what I want it to, and that’s worth a lot to me, it allows me to pour my time on stuff I want to be building and just game on my gaming boxes.
I work in tech. I also have terrible dexterity. While I love my gaming PC, I dread upgrades or things going wrong. I hate applying thermal paste, replacing a motherboard, etc. I’d gladly pay “prebuilt” prices for something from a company I can “trust” (as far as corporations can be trusted).
A thousand dollars seems fantastically reasonable for a well-engineered home-gaming machine that can play current gen PC games at high quality. I spend that much every several years on upgrading or building a new PC.
My complaint is not the price, I think the price is fair. Let’s talk wages.
And a lot of the prebuilts have a ton of cut corners. A well put-together machine that people can trust to play their games at a base performance could be great for those who don’t want or can’t DIY.
Eh, I dont want steam machine becoming a standardized PC.
having CPU and GPU baked into the board and unchangable will just increase e-waste cause it will age out much faster than a PC which you could, 3-4 years down the line, max out the CPU in, throw more ram into, or upgrade teh GPU, to keep it relevant for another 4+ years
It serves its niche purpose, but it should not become standard.
I feel the standardization they mean is in the spec and not the specific build. Like, a lot of games are terrible optimized, not only on runtime but also in space needed, it is getting out of hand. But if you have to target a popular machine like steam deck or the steam machine that is not super high-end and have lower capacity storage you have no option but to put some attention on optimizing you game at least a little.
Except that just means they’d optimize for that specific hardware in the steam machine and still run like shit on anything else.
Power wise, they said the steam machine is equivalent to what 70% of the steam users already have and use. If developers arent already optimizing for that specific block, then one more machine out of thousands wont encourage it.
* Even if you assembled it yourself you would be missing features, such as cec, wake by controller, sleep mid game, etc.
I’ve been actively mass downvoted on Reddit for being excited for these features. People are really fucking stupid sometimes.
I have a significantly more powerful PC (in a tower case) currently hooked up to my tv surviving the same purpose and I will likely be getting the Steam Machine entirely for these features.
“But just use a dongle” they say. And I do. It works about half the time and I have to do this weird dance involving pulling up Kodi
Wait did you seriously put effort into searching for my posts just to try and be right?
Mate. I appreciate your absolute derangement here but it was like a week ago in a circlejerking thread and I got downvoted because it was a circlejerk. The same kinda post has probably happened like 2 million times at this point across reddit.
Wait did you seriously put effort into searching for my posts just to try and be right?
Its always amazing when people act like less than 15 seconds of effort is a monumental amount of when things arent going their way to try to attack someone for attempting to verify their claims.
Literally 2 searches, but apparently thats big effort to you. You spent more time typing out this comment.
it was like a week ago in a circlejerking thread and I got downvoted because it was a circlejerk
You said something not jerking in a thread that was openly for jerking, that also is not possible to find, and this proves that reddit has an unreasonable opinion on this box.
This all sounds ridiculous and now I just don’t believe you at all, especially with the ridiculous jump to hostility.
Knowing what parts to buy, I don’t think most average people can cite every piece in a desktop
Selecting parts that are compatible, try plug-and-play an AMD CPU on an Intel MOBO.
Selecting parts that fit the chassis you selected, unless you went with a full ATX that’s a concern.
Now that you bought the components:
Knowing to ground yourself before doing anything, currently I’m getting static shocks daily where I live, if I didn’t know about this I could very easily fry a RAM by picking it up wrong.
Cable management is not easy, most cheaper chassis don’t have enough or dedicated space for it.
Correct amount of thermal paste is something lots of people get wrong.
Some pieces require strength to lock in place, others break if you even look at them sideways.
Now that you’ve assembled everything:
Installing OS
Installing drivers
Installing Steam
Depending on your OS and controller of choice pairing controller and getting it to work could be difficult
I’m not saying that assembling a computer is hard, but is definitely far from plug-and-play, and not something I would recommend for someone without technical knowledge who just wants something to play games.
That’s the wording a lot of other people would use, I’d say. I wouldn’t be able to put together a PC, and most people I know are like that. I have maybe two cousins that can. But we’d probably all agree that plug-and-play means that you buy something and it works just like that. For example, a refrigerator is likely plug and play, because you don’t expect to have to put together the components to make it work. You just plug it in and it works.
Valve’s Pierre-Loup Griffais claimed that the Steam Machine price had not been nailed down internally, but that Valve’s aim was to offer a “good deal” in line with equivalently powered PCs.
“I think that if you build a PC from parts and get to basically the same level of performance, that’s the general price window that we aim to be at,” he said.
There going to be price competitive with building from parts, apparently.
The answer I’m replying to suggested you can get a prebuilt with a 9600 for 1000, since they’re replying to my point that a prebuilt with similar spec is 1000.
Oh, weird. I just read the whole chain going up and I don’t see any indication the figures were for prebuilt systems. Maybe someone edited their post or something isn’t federating?
Regardless, Valve is apparently going to be competitive just in hardware costs, which makes sense—they can’t expect to extract extra value from software sales, but they should still be able to have an acceptable profit margin with their scale and lack of layers in their distribution model.
Assembling your own Steam Machine with similar parts will cost around 800
No, it won’t. $800 will get you a machine that’s around 50% faster. Controller included.
Even if you assembled it yourself you would be missing features, such as cec, wake by controller, sleep mid game, etc. LTT will try to build one, it will be interesting to see what they come up with, but I’m 90% it won’t have feature parity.
Fair enough.
There’s lots of engineering gone into this machine, they’re way more compact, less power hungry and more quiet than anything you can build yourself.
It’s literally a laptop CPU with a laptop GPU.
Buying the same build as a prebuilt brings a premium and costs around 1000
Also not true. A 1k prebuilt is around 70% faster. Controller not included, though.
Valve purchases stuff in scale so they can diminish their margin and could potentially sell it cheaper than prebuilts, and possibly cheaper than building it yourself.
Sure, but that’s an argument in favour of it costing less.
Consoles are sold at a loss, and they recover it with games because the platform is closed.
Yeah, and the best selling console of the generation is $450 for the digital-only version.
The Steam Machine is not closed, they can’t be sure they’re getting game purchases, because people might be buying this to be their work computer. So they have to price it as a PC, with margin on hardware, not promise of future returns.
Stop this delusion. If this was an actual possibility, it would already be happening with the Steam Deck. Yes, I know you know someone who did it. I know someone who bought a Surface to put Linux on it. There’s dozens of us!
Price might fluctuate between now and announcement, RAM prices are going crazy nowadays.
That I see happening. RAM/storage might triple in price tomorrow which would push the price of the whole industry up.
An educated guess. The specs of the “semi-custom” components perfectly match with existing products. However, if I were to put my tinfoil hat on, I’d point out that the 7600M has been out for 2 years and you still cannot find a laptop with one. Almost as if someone snatched up all of the supply.
Edit: Forgot to mention what those existing products are. Ryzen 5 7400F and RX7600M. (The M is very important. Don’t forget the M).
No, it won’t. $800 will get you a machine that’s around 50% faster. Controller included.
Care to share a link to a PCPartPicker with that? Here’s a link on the same thread of someone building a similarly speck machine for 800 https://lemmy.world/comment/20649777 and that is without the controller. In case you haven’t noticed, RAM prices are a bit crazy at the moment.
It’s literally a laptop CPU with a laptop GPU.
It’s literally not, they custom developed it for the product, similar to the Steam Deck one, it is based on the architecture used on laptops, but so are Playstation and Xbox AFAIK.
Also not true. A 1k prebuilt is around 70% faster. Controller not included, though.
Sure, but that’s an argument in favour of it costing less.
Yes, that was my point, the top of what this should cost is the same as a prebuilt with similar specs since Valve buys stuff in bulk it should be cheaper than that.
Yeah, and the best selling console of the generation is $450 for the digital-only version.
And the other one is 700, your point is?
Stop this delusion. If this was an actual possibility, it would already be happening with the Steam Deck. Yes, I know you know someone who did it. I know someone who bought a Surface to put Linux on it. There’s dozens of us!
It didn’t happened with the Deck because it’s not sold at a loss, so it’s cheaper to assemble a similarly built PC for you. But I definitely saw several posts through the years recommending people just buy a Steam Deck as their machine in certain conditions. If the Steam Deck costed 300 I guarantee you people would be using it as their daily drivers or building clusters of them.
Nope. Already closed the tab and can’t be bothered to do it again. I did check the link you provided and I see where you went wrong. We’ll get to that in a bit.
It’s literally not, they custom developed it for the product, similar to the Steam Deck one, it is based on the architecture used on laptops, but so are Playstation and Xbox AFAIK.
It literally has the exact same specs as a Ryzen 5 7400F and an RX7600M. But hey, you were right, the CPU is actually not a laptop CPU.
Sure I could. I won’t because you already did and your prebuilt even is a $50 cheaper than the one I had found. Remember that I said we’d get to why the part list you posted was wrong? Here we are. An RX7600 has 32 compute units and a boost clock of about 2.6GHz. The RX7600M “custom GPU” in the Steam Machine has 28 CUs and a boost clock of about 2.4Ghz. This results in the full size 7600 being anywhere from 30% to 70% faster than its mobile version depending on the game and about 50% in synthetic benchmarks. So those PCs with “similar specs” you brought up are not similar at all.
And the other one is 700, your point is?
What other one? The one nobody bought? I guess Valve could go the same route if their goal is for nobody to buy their product.
It didn’t happened with the Deck because it’s not sold at a loss, so it’s cheaper to assemble a similarly built PC for you. But I definitely saw several posts through the years recommending people just buy a Steam Deck as their machine in certain conditions. If the Steam Deck costed 300 I guarantee you people would be using it as their daily drivers or building clusters of them.
It didn’t happen with the Deck because it’s one of the worse ideas ever conceived. It won’t happen with the Cube because it will remain one of the worst ideas ever conceived.
They could totally make money selling it at a loss. The reason so many people care is that there’s an opening in the console market for an affordable option
No, they couldn’t, have you read about the PS3? They were a lot cheaper than building a similar system so several companies bought thousands to build clusters, I personally worked at a relatively small university that had a cluster made of dozens of PS3s, since each Playstation costed Sony around $200 my university on its own costed thousands to Sony, and I imagine every other university and some private companies did the same.
Only after they closed their system, which they did because they were losing money to every single enterprise in the world who wanted a cluster and PS3 were the cheapest option.
The PS3 was using a rare CPU that you could only get from it or from some enterprise dealer at a much higher price. The Steam Machine is a standard x86 computer that can’t match the ubiquitous ThinkCentres in price/performance.
If it’s sold at a loss like a console it would beat the price/performance of any other x86 chip on the market, which is why they can’t sell it at a loss, ergo my point.
Thry could absolutely do that. Valve makes a cut off every Steam game sold. If anything, it’d be MORE viable for them than any other console maker given the wider library
In case anyone doesn’t wanna wade through the terrible way notebookcheck presents information, I’ll post the numbers for CyberPunk High Preset at 1080P to give you an idea of the performance difference. Nothing particular about why I chose that game, it’s just the first I found that was on all 3 links:
RX7600M: 62.3 FPS
RX7600: 90.1 FPS
RX9060XT: 127.2 FPS
If we set the 7600M as 100%, then the 7600 and 9060XT are 144.6% and 204.1% respectively.
I think people believe the Steam Machine will be way faster and that’s why they’re coming up with these outrageous prices.
Spec wise I can get there around $688 on pc part picker. I would imagine valve could hit a lower price point with selling en masse. That being said if you take in the price point of how small it is that could add some extra cost.
With the same form factor, noise level, CEC, wake on USB, optimized sleep/resume?
Just having a set of component with similar performance on paper is not having the same device.
The final experience have to take into account all of that.
Sure it does, but that doesnt mean that you can’t make a comparison.
all those features may hold higher value than more ram.
The VRAM may actually be a deal breaker if you look at the trend of current games and how many games have problems with even modest settings especially at higher resolutions like they’ve said this will support.
It’s like comparing two cars looking only at the engine. Discarding of one has AC and the others don’t.
Not at all. Its comparing the engines understanding that they are obviously different, but selectively talking about one aspect. You can bring up the other aspects but its not unfair to make the comparison.
Maybe for a thinkerer that could be a sensible comparison but for a non thinkerer like myself now (I used to be) those features holds a lot of value.
This has nothing to do with tinkering and everything to do with if this can deliver a good value for money for any sizeable target market.
If it only applies to a small niche, it can’t be a successful product and wont do what they want it to do.
If it can’t adequately pass the baseline, its out of steam before the starter gun fires.
A PC of similar performance is about $550 so I don’t get what they’re saying about it not been priced like a console. That’s about exactly what a Series S would cost.
I didn’t use prices from last week I used prices from last year because that’s when Steam would have actually made their devices. Manufacturing of the steam machine and the steam frame is rumoured to have occurred around 2023-2024, should the Trump shenanigans shouldn’t have affected things too much.
That’s not to say that somehow much the devices will cost it’s just how much it would have cost to build. How much profit they’re going to try and make on them is an unknown. With the steam deck they aim for $100 profit margin, but who knows with this device. The steam frame is also an unknown because it’s a weird configuration.
Used market prices, probably. An 8GB VRAM video card and an appropriate CPU that wouldn’t bottleneck performance could easily fit under $500. I guess nowadays the RAM would be the hangup lol.
I don’t know why people keep insisting that the current prices are relevant. These products have been manufactured for months now, so we need to be looking at old prices not current market value.
I’m curious to see how the price will be affected as consumer PCs get stronger every year. Will they update the Steam Machine every couple of years, or will they decrease the price? I have to assume they are targeting a neutral price because their primary goal is to assemble a linux box with as little margin as possible and put it in front of you for an actual fair price, but “fair price” is a moving target.
Personally, I’m all for getting what I pay for. People who sell to you at a loss are up to something.
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My gaming PC from 2019 might be technically barely faster than this (2070S in it) but I’m still inclined to buy one.
What’s convinced me is my steam deck. I couldn’t be happier with a piece of hardware as this. And if this is just a more powerful non-handheld variant that does all the same shit, I’d be open to it for sure.
Fair prices are fair, the existence of billionaires is not. Tax Gabe Newell and the rest of 'em too.
Didn’t he buy a massive yacht on the same day steam announced these products? It can’t be easy to sneak a superyacht under the publicity radar, but he seems to have pretty much managed it.
I think he’s earned it. I will accept. 😅.
He’s one rich guy I feel isn’t a piece of shit and has good ideas.
There is no such thing as an ethical billionaire, don’t kid yourself.
You only become a billionaire by being a greedy bastard, there’s no exceptions.
https://fortune.com/2025/11/17/gabe-newell-leviathan-superyacht-features-submarine-garage-hospital-spa-gaming-pcs-inkfish-oceanco/
If olot really Is going to be priced like that then why? Like you Can Build a PC and Its even fun. You cant make a Powerfull PC that small easly but like…idk
There were some pieces mentioned on waveform about its set up being out of box ready to be turned on by tv remote and those few console like bits that people like me wouldnt know how to do if we built.
Eh, I don’t particularly enjoy building PCs, but I do it because it’s cheaper, esp. for upgrades. I’m really not the target market for this.
That said, this is the right product for a lot of people. Many don’t want to mess with their gaming system, they want it to just work. That’s why consoles are popular, and the Steam Machine being a bit more expensive than a console and get access to Steam’s catalog is very attractive to a lot of people, especially if it otherwise works like a console.
Yeah It works like the pc-console with steamOS ita Just i found that for me and some other people its a Little redundant, but not that people shouldnt buy it
I’m guessing the same reason people don’t always reroof their own house, or replace their own home electrical, or build their own bike. Sometimes it’s worth spending money to avoid doing a thing you either don’t want to or don’t know how to do. As I’ve gotten older and more financially secure that’s definitely been the case with me at least
Yeah there Is also that. Its more convenient sometimes to not do the “Sorry” job
People out there replacing their homes electrical?
It’s weird being on this site sometimes. Not everyone speaks computer, but it turns out that doesn’t make them dumb, they’re just good at different things. Personally I have no issues doing electrical work but know I would get incredibly frustrated trying to work a Linux machine. I have no interest in learning all that noise because it straight up is not interesting to me and is not worth my time. I had my fill of that nonsense in school. I’d def be a potential customer of something like this that ‘works out of the box’ - honestly that’s the real path to getting people off windows.
Plus, they may be able to come in slightly cheaper on volume discounts on components.
I’ve always built my on PCs, but there are times when the whims of the market have made pre-builts cheaper.
If you want a smaller form factor it actually costs you more than a normal tower. This is not a bad way to get a small form factor computer (if it’s priced like a normal sized PC)
Especially with the fucked up RAM prices recently.
Yeah fi you want a small pc its very good since its hard to find Powerfull small PCs
As long as I can buy it with one Troy ounce of pure gold and not more, it’s a good price.
No its gonna be 0.5674392 Troy ounces of pure Gold
Acceptable price
That’s a rip off, it’ll be more like 1/4 troy ounce, if that
Ofcourse it will. Anyone expecting any less are just optimists
Remember, an Xbox series X now costs $600 for digital edition ($800 for 2tb + disk drive)
…and those are just flying off the shelves!
Think i’ll just plug my existing gaming laptop into my TV and save my money thx…
You need to realize that you’re not always going to be the target audience.
Here is my point 1200 CDN 850 USD why would you bother with a console at this point???
ewww win 11
It’s not a console though. It’s basically an ssf rebuilt using linux.
Because it has desktop hardware in it, and it just works off the shelf like a console.
Just because you can’t find a use case that fits your needs doesn’t mean it won’t fit anyone’s needs.
You’re comparing an $800 apple vs an $800 orange
Could have saved this comment too, but here we both are
Over, under
$500 USD?
IIRC from an earlier article, they’re still looking at factors and don’t yet know for sure (I suspect that it might be that Trump tariffs and whether they will stand is an input).
Definitely over 500$. Considering the statement it sounds like it will be at least 800 dollars.
Yeah, I’ve been guessing $800-1000. That’s a decent deal on a prebuilt with this performance.
I think if it is over $600 most people aren’t even going to consider it as an option.
That’s the thing I find amusing in this thread. Consoles are a known quantity and it needs to either compete or undercut them. I have a Steam Deck that I paid £320 for (brought up to £400 by the SSD I added). I would most definitely not pay more than £450 for a Steam Box. It may well cost more than that but it is a luxury and I would seriously struggle to justify more than that.
Facts people forget:
With all of that being said, it seems to me it’s very likely it will be around 800 but less than 1000. For people saying you can build one for that price yourself, sure, go ahead, you’ll have a huge, power hungry loud box, without the same features and you would have saved only a small fraction of the value by having to assemble everything yourself.
maybe more with the way ram prices are skyrocketing… because even though it comes out next year, they are probably being manufactured and stockpiled right now.
Yup, like I said, it depends on how prices will fluctuate, my guess is what the price would be if it was being sold now, if RAM increases they would have to compensate for it.
Yep, and since it has both system ram AND dedicated gddr graphics ram… its gonna be double dipped in the price gouging by the memory manufacturers
Time for another video of Linus failing to follow basic instructions and going out of his way to break the OS because Linux gaming bad
I hate LTT, but they did absolutely nothing wrong or anything a normal user wouldn’t do in that video.
I don’t think so, I think a normal user would pause when the system asks him to type “Yes, do as I say” as that is clearly a sign that you’re about to shoot yourself in the foot.
You are very far removed from a normal user then.
Most people rarely read warnings or signs. They’re used to needing to just click accept and move on. More than that, their entire experience thus far will have trained them to just type in the magic command line words and get it over with. This is what linux enthusiasts beat into them while pretending everything is a cake walk. “Don’t trust anything” while simultaneously telling them to use this and that script, and copy this and that text into the terminal. Its not at all a wonder to imagine that behaviour.
It wasn’t a standard accept/continue/yes prompt, it wasn’t something that he could just press enter or something easy and continue without noticing, he had to have read the message to know what to do, it was something akin to:
WARNING The following essential packages will be removed. This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you’re doing! … You’re about to do something harmful, if you’re sure of what you’re doing type the phrase “Yes, do as I say!”
The message couldn’t have been more clear about it. Plus most users wouldn’t need to use the terminal, he just happened to use the distro during the brief window that that bug existed.
As a Linux enthusiast I can definitely tell you I never encourage people to just type words in the magic box and get it over with, and always tell them to understand what they’re typing.
Doesn’t matter. This is an opinion that is 100% formed in an echo chamber where you are far removed from what a regular user would think going through this process. All of these prompts you think look different, to a normal person might as well be literally exactly the same. “I don’t know what I am doing, but the program says to do the next thing, with some warning that probably doesnt matter because I’m not doing something hard or critically important”.
Of note:
That is a message that would not impede a regular user at all, or would completely stop them from using the OS.
They’re trying to install steam. Why would they have any reason to believe that whatever programs are mentioned matter, or think that this message matters when they’re doing something that is in theory extremely simple?
How does this negate the fact that the actions taken were reasonable and absolutely not the users fault? In fact, the fact that this was fixed and treated so urgently betrays what a flaw it was.
Lets for the sake of not stating what I actually assume to be true take your word at face value.
What you recommend is simply incompatible with the majority of people. They don’t have the time or effort to devote into actually learning as much as you’d need to learn for this to actually be useful advice.
A great amount of information must be completely skipped over and ignored to be proficient in a reasonable amount of time.
I’ve used Linux at multiple jobs, and used it as my main desktop OS for more than a year. I know this to be true. For the average person to follow your advice, they’d need to have a firm grasp of BASH. Expecting people to learn even one scripting language, especially an old esoteric one with many gotchas and vestiges of its time is an absurd ask, so of course no one would listen to your advice as it is utterly unreasonable on its face, and completely incompatible with the level of user adoption people hope for.
So then, there is the other advice, from people who are also elitists, but in a different way. They believe these people must be stupid to not figure out the problems on their own, and casually tell them to just RTFM or use X, Y or Z script with reckless abandon.
Neither of these lead to anything remotely resembling the ease of use of operating systems these users will have come from, no matter how much Linux enthusiasts insist their weird edge cases where they feel those OSes are inferior mean that somehow, magically their opinions apply to the users they are appealing to.
I have a lot more to say honestly, as I have certainly thought about this a lot, but by this point and given the excerpt I am replying to, I’ve learned to never expect good faith discussion, so I’m just limiting my losses by stopping here as I expect toxic positivity as a response.
I agree with lots of what you’re saying, this was a serious bug, it wasn’t the user’s fault, and users can’t be expected to learn bash.
My point is that the message tried to be as scary as possible, because if that message shows then something is about to uninstall critical components from the system, the bug here was that trying to install steam triggered that. I agree that it wasn’t Linus fault, but I think that most users would stop at that message, he didn’t because he thinks he knows what he’s doing, but he doesn’t, he’s in that middle ground where he knows enough to be confidently wrong.
Let me ask you, how would you have given that message in a way that would make people stop?, remember that the message is valid, the bug was installing steam doing that.
Otherwise known as a typical behaviour of majority of users
Yeah, but to be fair that was a shitty thing the system did, anyone with experience would know not to do it, but honestly it should have never happened. On the other hand, Linus is a bit daft and lots of stuff blows over his head monumentally, in the same video where he said he would be building a Steam Machine he also couldn’t seem to grasp that this is just a computer and people would see it as a prevuilt. In short I don’t think he will acknowledge lots of the killer features in the Steam Machine just so he can claim his thing does the same. But at least it will be an interesting watch.
Yeah, I agree.
I detest Linus, but at least attack him for legitimate shit.
He was approaching linux as a basic idiot, like someone like me, and that is absolutely something a new average linux user would absolutely do.
iirc, that bug was known before hand, and no one bothered to fix it until famous man made video that got famous.
It was known beforehand and was fixed already by the time he released his video, he just happened to luck out and encounter it during the short spam it existed.
I disagree that he approached it as a complete idiot, he approached it as someone who knows what they’re doing, when he definitely doesn’t, and that was the issue. Anyone without technical know-how would have panicked at the system asking him to type “I know what I’m doing”, and anyone with enough technical know-how would have paused at that and read the message carefully and moped the fuck out. He had enough knowledge to think he knew what he was doing, but not enough to actually do, and the boldness to think he knew better.
That being said, I agree that there’s plenty of other stuff to bash him for, and that was not a great example, lots of people would have found themselves in that same situation, and I don’t think it’s unfair to say the fuck up there was not entirely on his part.
Good thing his team has a few linux nerds. So unlike that challenge where he was alone, here his team would work on it.
Sometimes, but evidently not currently. Sources seem to indicate that only Microsoft seems to say they are selling at a loss, though it seems odd since their bill of materials looks like it should be pretty comparable to PS5…
I’ll agree with the guess of around $800, but like you say, the supply pressure on RAM and storage as well as the tariff situation all over the place, hard to say.
Jay already tried. It was bigger, didn’t have the custom OS, and cost $1700. He could have done better except he was part limited to what rhe Microcenter he was at had on hand. Doing a bunch or research and getting different parts would probably bring down the price.
Facts
Also people who like to DIY seem to forget that a lot of people want a turn-key solution, I even dare to say that most people prefer a ready made solution. Even a lot of people who work in tech when they get home want a just work solution.
Yup, I love DIY, had tons of fun building my wife’s mini-itx gaming rig, my NAS and even my desktop (although it was the boring one of the three since it’s just standard). I love poking on my system, trying out stuff, etc. But I bought a Deck and my only mod was getting EmuDeck in it, it just works for what I want it to, and that’s worth a lot to me, it allows me to pour my time on stuff I want to be building and just game on my gaming boxes.
Nail On The Head.
I work in tech. I also have terrible dexterity. While I love my gaming PC, I dread upgrades or things going wrong. I hate applying thermal paste, replacing a motherboard, etc. I’d gladly pay “prebuilt” prices for something from a company I can “trust” (as far as corporations can be trusted).
A thousand dollars seems fantastically reasonable for a well-engineered home-gaming machine that can play current gen PC games at high quality. I spend that much every several years on upgrading or building a new PC.
My complaint is not the price, I think the price is fair. Let’s talk wages.
Absolutely agreed, if every company had wages at the level Valve does it would be very good.
And a lot of the prebuilts have a ton of cut corners. A well put-together machine that people can trust to play their games at a base performance could be great for those who don’t want or can’t DIY.
PCs suffer from massive hardware fragmentation. It’s about time someone made a standardized PC.
Eh, I dont want steam machine becoming a standardized PC.
having CPU and GPU baked into the board and unchangable will just increase e-waste cause it will age out much faster than a PC which you could, 3-4 years down the line, max out the CPU in, throw more ram into, or upgrade teh GPU, to keep it relevant for another 4+ years
It serves its niche purpose, but it should not become standard.
I feel the standardization they mean is in the spec and not the specific build. Like, a lot of games are terrible optimized, not only on runtime but also in space needed, it is getting out of hand. But if you have to target a popular machine like steam deck or the steam machine that is not super high-end and have lower capacity storage you have no option but to put some attention on optimizing you game at least a little.
Except that just means they’d optimize for that specific hardware in the steam machine and still run like shit on anything else.
Power wise, they said the steam machine is equivalent to what 70% of the steam users already have and use. If developers arent already optimizing for that specific block, then one more machine out of thousands wont encourage it.
A good APU solution like in the consoles would be a nice option though. Especially now with RAM prices through the roof again.
I’ve been actively mass downvoted on Reddit for being excited for these features. People are really fucking stupid sometimes.
I have a significantly more powerful PC (in a tower case) currently hooked up to my tv surviving the same purpose and I will likely be getting the Steam Machine entirely for these features.
“But just use a dongle” they say. And I do. It works about half the time and I have to do this weird dance involving pulling up Kodi
I’d bet it was more about the phrasing and it probably commented in a way that downplayed concerns other people had.
You’d be wrong then.
“Why exactly would anyone want this?”
“CEC, that alone sold it for me”
points -30
I just can’t take your word for it. It doesn’t pass my smell test and I haven’t seen it.
Neither phrase even turns up results.
Wait did you seriously put effort into searching for my posts just to try and be right?
Mate. I appreciate your absolute derangement here but it was like a week ago in a circlejerking thread and I got downvoted because it was a circlejerk. The same kinda post has probably happened like 2 million times at this point across reddit.
Its always amazing when people act like less than 15 seconds of effort is a monumental amount of when things arent going their way to try to attack someone for attempting to verify their claims.
Literally 2 searches, but apparently thats big effort to you. You spent more time typing out this comment.
You said something not jerking in a thread that was openly for jerking, that also is not possible to find, and this proves that reddit has an unreasonable opinion on this box.
This all sounds ridiculous and now I just don’t believe you at all, especially with the ridiculous jump to hostility.
For 1k you can get a 9600 9060XT 16gb system, which is waaaaaay more powerful, so this is quite an exaggeration.
A prebuilt plug-and-play device? Can you share a link to that?
Considering that building a pc isn’t more than plugging in all the parts, I’d say “building your own PC” very much is plug-and-play.
Not saying everyone can do it but “prebuilt plug-and-play” isn’t the wording I’d use.
It’s a lot more than that, it’s:
Now that you bought the components:
Now that you’ve assembled everything:
I’m not saying that assembling a computer is hard, but is definitely far from plug-and-play, and not something I would recommend for someone without technical knowledge who just wants something to play games.
That’s the wording a lot of other people would use, I’d say. I wouldn’t be able to put together a PC, and most people I know are like that. I have maybe two cousins that can. But we’d probably all agree that plug-and-play means that you buy something and it works just like that. For example, a refrigerator is likely plug and play, because you don’t expect to have to put together the components to make it work. You just plug it in and it works.
There going to be price competitive with building from parts, apparently.
The answer I’m replying to suggested you can get a prebuilt with a 9600 for 1000, since they’re replying to my point that a prebuilt with similar spec is 1000.
Oh, weird. I just read the whole chain going up and I don’t see any indication the figures were for prebuilt systems. Maybe someone edited their post or something isn’t federating?
Regardless, Valve is apparently going to be competitive just in hardware costs, which makes sense—they can’t expect to extract extra value from software sales, but they should still be able to have an acceptable profit margin with their scale and lack of layers in their distribution model.
This is the thing I’m replying to, emphasis on the prebuilt.
But yeah, I don’t think the machine will cost the same as a prebuilt, but that’s the high end of the price range.
No, it won’t. $800 will get you a machine that’s around 50% faster. Controller included.
Fair enough.
It’s literally a laptop CPU with a laptop GPU.
Also not true. A 1k prebuilt is around 70% faster. Controller not included, though.
Sure, but that’s an argument in favour of it costing less.
Yeah, and the best selling console of the generation is $450 for the digital-only version.
Stop this delusion. If this was an actual possibility, it would already be happening with the Steam Deck. Yes, I know you know someone who did it. I know someone who bought a Surface to put Linux on it. There’s dozens of us!
That I see happening. RAM/storage might triple in price tomorrow which would push the price of the whole industry up.
Not trying to have a go at you, actually genuinely curious: Do you have a source to confirm this, or is it more of an educated guess on your part?
All I’ve seen so far is that it’s a semi-custom AMD Zen 4 6c/12t CPU and RDNA 3 28 CU GPU.
An educated guess. The specs of the “semi-custom” components perfectly match with existing products. However, if I were to put my tinfoil hat on, I’d point out that the 7600M has been out for 2 years and you still cannot find a laptop with one. Almost as if someone snatched up all of the supply.
Edit: Forgot to mention what those existing products are. Ryzen 5 7400F and RX7600M. (The M is very important. Don’t forget the M).
Care to share a link to a PCPartPicker with that? Here’s a link on the same thread of someone building a similarly speck machine for 800 https://lemmy.world/comment/20649777 and that is without the controller. In case you haven’t noticed, RAM prices are a bit crazy at the moment.
It’s literally not, they custom developed it for the product, similar to the Steam Deck one, it is based on the architecture used on laptops, but so are Playstation and Xbox AFAIK.
Can you provide a link to such a prebuilt? Here’s the first prebuilt I could find with similar specs, and it’s 1k https://periphio.com/gaming-pcs/firestorm-7600-prebuilt-amd-gaming-pc/
Yes, that was my point, the top of what this should cost is the same as a prebuilt with similar specs since Valve buys stuff in bulk it should be cheaper than that.
And the other one is 700, your point is?
It didn’t happened with the Deck because it’s not sold at a loss, so it’s cheaper to assemble a similarly built PC for you. But I definitely saw several posts through the years recommending people just buy a Steam Deck as their machine in certain conditions. If the Steam Deck costed 300 I guarantee you people would be using it as their daily drivers or building clusters of them.
Nope. Already closed the tab and can’t be bothered to do it again. I did check the link you provided and I see where you went wrong. We’ll get to that in a bit.
It literally has the exact same specs as a Ryzen 5 7400F and an RX7600M. But hey, you were right, the CPU is actually not a laptop CPU.
Sure I could. I won’t because you already did and your prebuilt even is a $50 cheaper than the one I had found. Remember that I said we’d get to why the part list you posted was wrong? Here we are. An RX7600 has 32 compute units and a boost clock of about 2.6GHz. The
RX7600M“custom GPU” in the Steam Machine has 28 CUs and a boost clock of about 2.4Ghz. This results in the full size 7600 being anywhere from 30% to 70% faster than its mobile version depending on the game and about 50% in synthetic benchmarks. So those PCs with “similar specs” you brought up are not similar at all.What other one? The one nobody bought? I guess Valve could go the same route if their goal is for nobody to buy their product.
It didn’t happen with the Deck because it’s one of the worse ideas ever conceived. It won’t happen with the Cube because it will remain one of the worst ideas ever conceived.
They could totally make money selling it at a loss. The reason so many people care is that there’s an opening in the console market for an affordable option
No, they couldn’t, have you read about the PS3? They were a lot cheaper than building a similar system so several companies bought thousands to build clusters, I personally worked at a relatively small university that had a cluster made of dozens of PS3s, since each Playstation costed Sony around $200 my university on its own costed thousands to Sony, and I imagine every other university and some private companies did the same.
You mean the same PS3 that still was profitable?
Only after they closed their system, which they did because they were losing money to every single enterprise in the world who wanted a cluster and PS3 were the cheapest option.
The PS3 was using a rare CPU that you could only get from it or from some enterprise dealer at a much higher price. The Steam Machine is a standard x86 computer that can’t match the ubiquitous ThinkCentres in price/performance.
If it’s sold at a loss like a console it would beat the price/performance of any other x86 chip on the market, which is why they can’t sell it at a loss, ergo my point.
You seem to think the Steam Machine will be much faster than the specs imply.
Thry could absolutely do that. Valve makes a cut off every Steam game sold. If anything, it’d be MORE viable for them than any other console maker given the wider library
The consoles are the affordable option.
I fully understand that it sucks that this is the reality, but sucking doesn’t make something less true.
So what’s a PC with the same level of performance?
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine
CPU
Semi-custom AMD Zen 4 6C / 12T
up to 4.8 GHz, 30W TDP
GPU
Semi-Custom AMD RDNA3 28CUs
2.45GHz max sustained clock, 110W TDP
16GB DDR5 + 8GB GDDR6 VRAM
512GB NVMe SSD OR
2TB NVMe SSD
$1,000?
https://www.microcenter.com/product/698874/powerspec-g527-gaming-pc
That PC at microcenter is much faster than the Steam Machine.
Here’s some benchmarks for the 7600M, which has the exact same specs as the GPU in the Steam Machine:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-7600M-GPU-Benchmarks-and-Specs.679303.0.html
Here’s some benchmarks for a 9060XT which is the GPU on your link:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-9060-XT-16GB-Benchmarks-and-Specs.1029097.0.html
And here’s some benchmarks for a desktop 7600 which is another card people are comparing the Steam Machine to:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-7600-Benchmarks-and-Specs.806213.0.html
In case anyone doesn’t wanna wade through the terrible way notebookcheck presents information, I’ll post the numbers for CyberPunk High Preset at 1080P to give you an idea of the performance difference. Nothing particular about why I chose that game, it’s just the first I found that was on all 3 links:
If we set the 7600M as 100%, then the 7600 and 9060XT are 144.6% and 204.1% respectively.
I think people believe the Steam Machine will be way faster and that’s why they’re coming up with these outrageous prices.
Spec wise I can get there around $688 on pc part picker. I would imagine valve could hit a lower price point with selling en masse. That being said if you take in the price point of how small it is that could add some extra cost.
With the same form factor, noise level, CEC, wake on USB, optimized sleep/resume? Just having a set of component with similar performance on paper is not having the same device.
It’s a bad comparison to make.
Its not a bad comparison to make at all when comparing price.
Small form factor is not a huge challenge for a computer using this little power.
As for the other features, no one is pretending its precisely the same device. Thats why its a comparison.
I really not agree here. The final experience have to take into account all of that.
If it’s a device I just want to plug toy tv and enjoy all those features may hold higher value than more ram.
It’s like comparing two cars looking only at the engine. Discarding of one has AC and the others don’t.
Maybe for a thinkerer that could be a sensible comparison but for a non thinkerer like myself now (I used to be) those features holds a lot of value.
Sure it does, but that doesnt mean that you can’t make a comparison.
The VRAM may actually be a deal breaker if you look at the trend of current games and how many games have problems with even modest settings especially at higher resolutions like they’ve said this will support.
Not at all. Its comparing the engines understanding that they are obviously different, but selectively talking about one aspect. You can bring up the other aspects but its not unfair to make the comparison.
This has nothing to do with tinkering and everything to do with if this can deliver a good value for money for any sizeable target market.
If it only applies to a small niche, it can’t be a successful product and wont do what they want it to do.
If it can’t adequately pass the baseline, its out of steam before the starter gun fires.
It’s $2,400 – 6 Steam Decks – the end.
Where am I supposed to be able to get $3,600 to buy this?
You have two kidneys, don’t you?
SLPT: Drug dealing. You can make a lot of money in a short amount of time
And its recession proof!
That’s ULPT, not SLPT, because there is a profit to be madm
Sell your csgo skins
A PC of similar performance is about $550 so I don’t get what they’re saying about it not been priced like a console. That’s about exactly what a Series S would cost.
where did you get that? With the price increases of pc components in recent months, it’s more like $750+.
I didn’t use prices from last week I used prices from last year because that’s when Steam would have actually made their devices. Manufacturing of the steam machine and the steam frame is rumoured to have occurred around 2023-2024, should the Trump shenanigans shouldn’t have affected things too much.
That’s not to say that somehow much the devices will cost it’s just how much it would have cost to build. How much profit they’re going to try and make on them is an unknown. With the steam deck they aim for $100 profit margin, but who knows with this device. The steam frame is also an unknown because it’s a weird configuration.
Used market prices, probably. An 8GB VRAM video card and an appropriate CPU that wouldn’t bottleneck performance could easily fit under $500. I guess nowadays the RAM would be the hangup lol.
I don’t know why people keep insisting that the current prices are relevant. These products have been manufactured for months now, so we need to be looking at old prices not current market value.
Is this anounced to boost the sales of a yet-to-be-revealed steam link 2 ?
Steam Link 2 is just a Google TV or similar device with the Steam Link app installed. They never stopped the project, just shifted focus.
I’m curious to see how the price will be affected as consumer PCs get stronger every year. Will they update the Steam Machine every couple of years, or will they decrease the price? I have to assume they are targeting a neutral price because their primary goal is to assemble a linux box with as little margin as possible and put it in front of you for an actual fair price, but “fair price” is a moving target.
Personally, I’m all for getting what I pay for. People who sell to you at a loss are up to something.